Whither the Bushes and the Republican Party? Aussiegirl and Bonnieblueflag exchange some emails

BonnieBlueFlag and Aussiegirl exchange emails and ruminate on the recent love-fest between the Bushes and Bill Clinton


In light of the recent warming of relations between Bill Clinton and the Bushes, and the news that Bill Clinton will now be a special envoy to oversee (argh, gasp. cough, cough -- sorry -- that was hard to get past) the spending of billions of tsunami aid dollars (why am I seeing a picture of the Clinton Laundry -- er Library in my mind?) -- Aussiegirl and BonnieBlueFlag exchanged the following series of emails -- ruminations and speculations of two Republicans about where are we now, and where Bush is leading us, and what his plan might be.


BonnieBlueFlag said:

I knew all along that Clinton had his eye on Kofi Annan's job, and he must be salivating now that Kofi is in so much trouble.� So this 2 year envoy job is just a stepping stone for Clinton.

As to why GW is being so cooperative in this, I cannot say.� I am not happy about the Bush, Clinton, Bush connection at all.� Could GW have an ulterior motive in his support of Clinton getting what he wants?� Could Clinton seemingly getting his own desires, keep him off the campaign trail in '06 or '08, because he will be hamstrapped in criticizing Bush, if and when he appears with or without Hillary?

I firmly believe that Bill would sell Hillary down the river in a second, if by doing so, he would get what he wants!� Bill knows that Hillary would do the same to him, if he stood in her way of getting what she wanted.

Are Karl Rove and GW Bush playing a game of "Divide and Conquer?"� If they can put a muzzle on Bill Clinton before any future election, the Republicans would stand a much better chance of winning.

This is all speculation on my part of curse, not because I don't want to believe that GW has gone over to the dark side, but because I do not want to be one of those foolish people who have "misunderestimated" him in the past.

One small aside . . . Bill Clinton cannot keep his mouth shut!� He is talking, talking all the time.� When he is included in something like the Air Force One ride to Rome, he will undoubtedly inadvertently let little nuggets slip about Hillary's campaign plans, etc.� He will feel the need to brag about the advice that he has given her, or someone else in the Democratic party.

Bill Clinton has a head full of FBI files, and an additional dozen years of experience with the politicians in the beltway.� You just know that Karl and GW are lulling him into revealing things that he shouldn't.� But, he needs to be in GW's good graces to get what he wants, so he will try to impress and dazzle GW for his own purposes.


Aussiegirl said:

What concerns me is that Karl Rove may be being too clever by half thinking he can play Bill Clinton and Hillary off against each other, or to coopt them to cooperate with the Bushes, or to pick his brains, etc.

There is no way in heaven that Bill isn't going to turn on a dime and vilify and betray the Bushes if Hillary runs - if they think they are lulling him and tricking him -- I think they will fall into a long line of people who have suffered the betrayal that these two completely unscrupulous people are capable of. "He who sups with the devil must use a long spoon."

I'm not comfortable with these clever games. And I'm thinking with the increasing division in the ranks of Congress among Republicans, that this whole second term may be coming unravelled.

Bush may be taking the Republican party back to the party of the elites, the moderates, and the country club Republicans, where his father and others are comfortable. Frankly, I don't think that Bush is really that conservative -- as people have wondered all along - since he started the "compassionate conservative" business. A fat lot of good it has done him in garnering any democratic cooperation, etc.

Maybe he's trying to make Bill Clinton into another friend like that head of the democrat senate in Texas who started out as his enemy and ended up as his friend. But Bill is no one's friend -- people who know him say that he is brilliant at convincing people that he is completely on their side and loves them dearly, and then he is able to convince the next person he sees who has completely opposite views that he feels the same way about them.

Everyone always comments how fatally charming, and ingratiating and sincere he seems. And he probably is --- he believes and feels whatever he needs to at the moment in order to get along - it's a trait of people who have parents who are alcoholics -- but then he does exactly as he pleases when it's up to him.

I think the Bushes may feel that they are using and manipulating him -- and influencing him -- and even maybe some starry eyed idea that they will convert him and he will see the light -- when in reality the Clintons will end up using Bush. Anyone who thinkshey can use or outfox these people or trick them is setting themselves up for a fall. Did you listen to the radio shows today and hear the disgusting things Hillary said just the other day about Bush? I noticed that one of the things she said was words to the effect of -- "Now Bush is misrepresenting that my husband agrees with him on Social Security -- well let me tell you -- I know Bill Clinton -- etc. etc." -- to tumultuous jeers and catcalls as her voice grew more hateful and dripping with contempt.

Yes, we are all afraid to fall into that group of people who "misunderestimated" Bush -- so we go along with everything he does, no matter how inexplicable, saying -- "He's got a secret plan that we don't know about."

But he continues to do those inexplicable things and they keep becoming more and more inexplicable. The border issue is getting worse -- and Bush never condemns or even acknowledges that there is a problem, instead he labels law-abiding citizens who are merely carrying out surveillance activities as "vigilantes". He is the one who inexplicably cut the number of border guards authorized by Congress. He has yet to explain the "secret plan" behind that. Now we hear that a "one-time" amnesty for all illegal aliens is a possibility.

So, I'll tell you -- I am beginning to view him with a slightly jaundiced and careful eye. I think that possibly Karl Rove, in his desire to make the Republican party a majority party by appealing to Hispanics with the inaction on the border and other issues, will instead alienate the conservative base which will look elsewhere in the next election -- to a third party candidate -- thereby sealing Hillary as the candidate who comes into office in a minority 3-way vote.

And, frankly, this Social Security road show has been a disaster, even I don't think it's a good idea. And it annoys me that with all the pressing problems we face, like getting those judicial nominees through Congress, that he is wasting his time on this. Granted, it is a problem that must be eventually fixed, but we have more pressing problems right now, we don't have the luxury of having our president on the road like some perpetual campaign, talking retirement acounts when our borders are falling apart, and the Republicans in congress are in complete disarray in how to present a united front to the daily assaults by the democrats. Bush seems to be curiously disengaged in all that. Like he doesn't care about it at all. And there seems to be no coordination between the White House and Congressional Republicans to ensure enaction of his agenda.

And once again, I have always been frustrated with his inability to go directly to the people -- except in those scripted town hall meetings, which TV doesn't cover, and are full of his supporters anyway. Reagan could go on TV and talk right over the heads of the media and go right to the people, so his bills were always winning despite a democrat majority. We now have a Republican majority and they cower daily before the democrats, begging forgiveness for their very sin of being Republicans and in the majority.

Let me say that I do not think that those low approval numbers are a good sign -- to me that means that now that the Iraqi situation is winding down (and we will be withdrawing from there very fast), and people do not feel particularly threatened by terrorism, that they are seeing a lack of leadership and movement on domestic issues -- or a seeming lack of cohesion and cooperation. And I think he is fast losing conservative votes -- I think Karl Rove has a disregard for conservatives and Christians, frankly, and I think to them we are a bunch of people who have to be appeased so we'll turn out to vote, but that he needs to reach out to the middle. Reagan didn't reach to the middle -- he reached out to the average American.

So, I agree with you, and I'm almost ashamed of my criticism of Bush -- but I hear even Rush today is feeling some of the same thoughts, even though he hates to admit it. We can't just blame democrats for everything. We don't do the Republicans, or even our own president a favor when we become nothing more than a cheering section which blindly applauds no matter what he does -- that way lies disaster -- for the party -- there has to be criticism -- and accountability. He is not perfect -- and he cannot be allowed to bask forever in our adulation of him. I'm not comfortable doing that. It makes me uneasy.


BonnieBlueFlag said:

I very much agree that Bill Clinton could turn on a dime, if Hillary is running in the 2008 election for president; one of his top two favorite goals is to be back in the White House any way he can get there, the other being the Secretary General of the UN.� I still maintain that their dreams of power has Bill as Secretary General and Hillary as the President simultaneously.� Talk about a "Power Couple."� Imagine the harm they could do in those positions together.

However, I also think that they could sell each other out, to get what they as individuals want.� I would be hard pressed to think of two more ambitious greedy self-centered people, without a doubt their match maker was indeed the "Devil that now sups with GW."

Your point about GW trying to make Bill Clinton into a friend, in the fashion of his Democratic friend back in Texas, is very well taken.� I remember Ted Kennedy kicking his tush, after GW tried to be gracious with an invitation to the White House.� I assumed that he had learned his lesson from that experience, but perhaps you are right, and GW is just to naive to handle the dragons that live and work in the moat around the White House.

While I do not wish to be numbered among those who have "misunderestimated" GW, neither am I willing to give him a free pass.� I am trying to figure out what GW is doing in multiple areas of concern.� I never thought that as a former Governor of Texas, he would leave those Americans living on the border to fend for themselves.� I do not see his compassionate side, when he allows illegal aliens to terrorize our own citizens in a dozen different ways.

I do believe that Social Security needs to be fixed, and I just shake my heard in disbelief as I watch the Democrats do everything that they can to block the attempt to do so.� The same Democrats that bellowed, "Social Security is going broke." just a few years ago.

No outside enemy could harm us more than the Democrats do every day, especially now that they are willing to sell their souls to "that same Devil" to get their power back, and to hell with the rest of us.

GW is playing a very high stakes poker game, and I haven't a clue what cards he is holding.� I have been nervous from the day that he sat down at the table and picked up his chips.

The hand being played out in the Senate is an entirely different matter.� The Republicans who are in the majority, keep whining and whimpering about how they cannot change the rules, because they might be in the minority again one day.

So in essence they are telling us, the voters, that they cannot act on what we put them there to do, because some of them may lose an election somewhere down the road.� They are so intimidated by the Democrats that they are too frightened to do their job.� They are on the verge of wasting one of the most important four year terms in our government's history.

Aussiegirl says:

AMEN SISTER!!